Sub-transmission: Rethinking distribution networks to fast-track more renewables

[00:00:00] Sarah:

Welcome to Wired for Good Conversations for a Better Energy Future. The podcast exploring how we can achieve a faster, fairer, and more affordable energy transition. Brought to you by Ausgrid, this podcast aims to make the complex energy industry more accessible and address how the energy transition can unlock greater benefits for all Australians.

Join us as we bring together leaders and experts to tackle the big questions on what's needed to achieve an energy future we're proud to leave as a legacy for the next generation. 

Hello and welcome to Wired for good, the podcast where we explore the people ideas and innovations shaping Australia's energy future.I'm your host, Sarah Aubrey. 

In this episode, we explore sub-transmission and the innovative ways we are rethinking existing infrastructure to enable more renewables into the grid. One of the challenges to getting more renewables into the grid quickly has been the impact that large new infrastructure has on farmland and rural communities in particular.

So,is there a better way, or at least can we rethink our existing infrastructure to maximise the benefits to those alongside new developments? So,let's look at projects like the Hunter Central Coast Renewable Energy Zone or HCC REZ, and ask the experts, is this a one-off or are there other opportunities to rethink the grid? And what might that look like?

Today I'm joined by Kelly Wood Group, executive Transmission Development and Growth at Ausgrid. And welcome back Kelly and also Mark Westbrook, chief Project Officer at EnergyCo. Welcome to you both.

[00:01:44] Mark:

Thank you. 

Kelly: 

Thanks Sarah.

[00:01:46] Sarah:

So, before we start, I know we talked a bit about the Hunter Central Coast REZ last season, but remind me what it is and how does it fit into other infrastructure and projects in New South Wales. So,I'll actually get you Mark to answer this. What are the REZ zones and what's EnergyCo's objective in building this new infrastructure?

[00:02:06] Mark:

Thank you, Sarah. So, the REZ zones are really about coordinating energy in a particular geographic area and doing it in a way that balances community needs, maintaining community support, achieving community support, consumer needs, you know, that it's, uh, efficient from a cost point of view and delivers value for consumers and investors needs because ultimately they have to invest in the generation and storage projects to make it all work. So really,it's coordinating all those things so that we can achieve, the REZ in total.

Um, the Hunter Central Coast REZ, you know, plays a really central role in New South Wales’s energy future. And it always has to be honest,it's always been at the core of energy and both energy use and energy production in New South Wales. And we've actually got to signal,you know, to illustrate how important it is.

We've actually, as EnergyCo currently got five different projects that all go through the Hunter Central Coast. Region.  Um, this, you know, the Hunter Central Coast, distribution upgrade works and, and generation that Ausgrid is leading is one really important part of that and part of the energy transition.

But if you look at the Hunter Central Coast REZ, that goes all the way from Doyalson and Munmorahin the south all the way up to the Upper Hunter. We have two other transmission projects. So, we have the Hunter Transmission project that goes up from the south all the way to Bayswater Power Station, which is sort of in the middle north section of the REZ.

And then from there we have the New England REZ project that goes all the way from Bayswater Power Station all the way, 200 kilometers up to the New England REZ. So,we've got those two important projects that traverse onto Central Coast REZ. We also have some really important logistics projects in the REZ as well.

So, and that starts at Newcastle, at the Newcastle Logistics Precinct because when you look at New South Wales, the bulk of input into the state for components and equipment comes through the Newcastle port area. So,we're developing a logistics precinct next to the port to really support bringing all that equipment into the renewable energy projects.

And then we have a road upgrade project so that we can move all that equipment up into the Central Coast REZ first, and then to the New England REZ and the HCC REZ as well. So that sort of illustrates just how central the Hunter region is to the energy transition.

[00:04:35] Sarah:

Wow. Sounds huge.

[00:04:38] Mark:

There's a lot happening in that, in that area.Yeah.

[00:04:41] Sarah:

So. Kelly, why is the HCC REZ different to other transmission infrastructure projects?

[00:04:48] Kelly:

Yeah, so it's a great question, Sarah. So,it's smaller to start with from a gigawatt capacity perspective. So, we are only adding an extra gigawatt to the Hunter Central Coast region. As some of the others that Mark talked about are much, much bigger, sort of five, six or more, uh, gigawatts.

And also, that energy is mostly going to be generated and consumed in the local region. And that means that we can transmit it at a lower voltage. So, we can use 132 kilovolts or sub-transmission is what we talk about in uh, Australia. And so that means we can replace the existing distribution - 132 kv that is there.

So, for example, we are replacing single lines with double or triple, and that's how we're bringing in the extra capacity. What that means is that we are using for 85 kilometers, we are reusing existing transmission corridors that already has electrical infrastructure in it. Uh, and that means there is less impact on landowners and communities.

So, most of those landowners are used to hosting that electrical infrastructure.We are still out there, uh, talking to them about the impact, but it should hopefully also speed up.So,we should be able to deliver this with less community impact and hopefully cheaper overall compared to some of the bigger, bigger projects.

[00:06:11] Sarah:

 Right. Where are you at with this project?

[00:06:14] Kelly:

Yeah, so we have our environmental approval. Yay. We also, we, mid-November we should, uh, hear about what we call the, um, Australian Energy Regulator Determination. So this, um, project was procured under the, uh, electrical Infrastructure Investment Act.

But it still has a determination, like a normal regulated capital project would. So, we expect to hear on that, uh, imminently.And then we have a contractual negotiation slash closure, I guess, that we have to get to with the New South Wales government with EnergyCo. Uh, and hopefully we'll get to that in sort of mid-December.

Uh, all going well we'll be ready to kick off construction in February. 

Sarah:

When do you hope to finish it? 

[00:07:00] Kelly:

Uh, mid 2028. Yeah, so I might be the first one really.That's what we were saying.

[00:07:06] Sarah:

First off the block. Love it. Alright, so clearly less community impact, as you said. Faster and cheaper delivery.

All good. Excellent. Tick, tick, tick. Um, but is this just a one-off opportunity or are there more examples of projects where this approach could be beneficial.

[00:07:25] Kelly:

Yeah. So, the most important thing is actually to get the generators connected to that first gigawatt.So,we're working on that, right? And then if there is more demand, which we think there is, we've got a pipeline of about two gigawatts already for the Hunter Central Coast REZ.

But, we are working with EnergyCo and Transgrid on the assumption that there is more generation need in the Renewable Energy Zone. And so, working with EnergyCo and Transgrid, we've identified another 3.7 gigawatts.That could come into the Hunter Central Coast region, should the demand be there.

And that is staged, right.So, it's actually four stages, and so you can bring those on to match the generation need. So, it's all theoretical at the moment, but if the generation need is there, then we can use the combination between the distribution network and a little bit of upgrading from Transgrid as well, and we can get to another 3.7 gig.

[00:08:21] Mark:

Maybe I can just add something there if that's all right. What's really important from our point of view is assessing those ideas. You know, we have to look at all options, transmission, distribution, alternative non-network solutions as well. But what's really important is it comes back to energy and it comes back to community, consumers, and investors, and we've got to find solutions that deliver the best outcomes for all those groups.

So that's the sort of lens as New South Wales government we have to put on, as we think about what network projects, you know, could support the energy transition.

[00:08:58] Sarah:

And you are with all these projects, are you thinking ahead, going, okay, we are going to need a lot more energy down the track with data centres and all of those things drawing on the grid?

[00:09:09] Mark:

The roadmaps and I referred earlier to the legislation.

It maps out an initial series of REZ’s and capacities that need to be generated initially.It's clear that there needs to be more than that as well. I think what's perhaps worth talking about is the Transmission Planning Review. So, the New South Wales government,commenced an independent review called the Transmission Planning Review, and the government's just responded to the report of the Transmission Planning Review.

Some of the core findings of that transmission planning review was the need for a new, a sort of integrated New South Wales plan going forward from 2027 that would be issued every two years and it would map out the future for 20 years. And in that plan, it would be a comprehensive review of not just transmission projects, but also distribution and alternative ways of delivering capacity.

So that was a really important initiative which the government's supporting.

[00:10:04] Kelly:

And that's also just building on that. So historically, there has been the AEMO integrated system plan. But it has, it talks a lot about the high voltage end and then it talks a lot PV, but it doesn't talk about the integration. Uh, and so one of the things that we are looking forward to helping out with is the New South Wales distributors, if that's the right word, distribution network. 

Sarah:

A DSP. Distribution system plan.

[00:10:34] Kelly: 

That's right, that's right, that's right

That's probably in another episode. But that will feed in,we’remaking that information available to feed into all of the options analysis that the New South Wales government and others are doing.

[00:10:49] Sarah:

Yeah. And so, does Ausgrid see a role for other distribution line upgrades?

[00:10:53] Kelly:

Yeah, absolutely right. To Mark's point there, there needs to be a plan, right? And, and we are, Ausgrid are very supportive of that. Uh, and our focus really for the last sort of couple of years is to understand how distribution networks in New South Wales can help facilitate that plan. So, Mark talks about a consumer.

What did you say? You spoke about consumer, community and investors.We talk about, how the distribution network can do cheaper, faster with more equitable outcomes. So that's our, that's our focus and we provide that sort of narrative into anybody that will listen.

[00:11:30] Sarah:

So, Mark, how is EnergyCo considering the existing infrastructure across New South Wales?

Do you see other opportunities like rooftop solar.

[00:11:40] Mark:

Yeah. I think the way I would put it is we need it all. You know, because there is so much to do. You know, the big strategic transmission build outs to new renewable energy zones are really important because they unlock large bulk renewable energy supply.

So,I think they're going to be absolutely fundamental.But then you can see there's lots of opportunities in the distribution network, which will sit side by side with that. And we are looking at other opportunities, and I think that New South Wales plan will allow us to assess those and compare them and work out which are the best ones to take forward. 

There are also two other areas I'd talk about, and they're the non-grid solutions. So, for example, Waratah Super Battery is one of our projects, which we've developed at the old Munmorah Power Station site.

It's the largest battery in Australia and should play a really important role in reducing energy prices, as, you know, as a large battery in the network. And the other one is Illawarra REZ, which is obviously based around the Illawarra region, but also, you know, around the, the Wollongong area.

And there we're calling it an urban REZ, and we've been looking at what solutions we can deliver there, which, um, are more about localised solutions for generation and storage in coordination with industry. And we have in that case, an MOU with Endeavor to explore those solutions for that urban REZ.

So,there's again, another type of solution that I think will come forward. 

Sarah:

And another big port. 

Mark:

Another big port probably, you know, not for the really large OSOM – Over Size Over Mass movements that we need for wind turbine blades.

[00:13:35] Sarah:

OSOM, I love that. 

[00:13:37] Mark:

Sorry. Another acronym. 

[00:13:39] Sarah:

How good is that acronym? What is it again?

[00:13:41] Mark:

OSOM

[00:13:42] Sarah:

And what does it stand for?

[00:13:43] Mark:

So they're Over Size Over Mass, movements, you know, so wind turbine blades, tower body sections, transformers. All the heavy kit.

[00:13:52] Sarah:

Learn something new again. Love it. 

[00:13:54] Mark:

That's a, a big part of the energy transition is OSOM. It’show we move all this equipment into these renewable energy zones that haven't traditionally had this type of equipment delivered to them.

[00:14:07] Sarah:

Yeah. Sorry. That's just so cool. I'm gonna be tucking that one away. Don't you worry. Um, so there are always, always trade-offs potentially to be made. How do you consider new build versus upgrade work?

So obviously you are more upgrade with this, what you are doing, I would assume a little bit of new build, but mostly upgrade. How do you make that decision about which to go with?

[00:14:29] Mark:

So like I say, it's a balance of trying to achieve all our objectives. And clearly that's a real positive as Kelly said. You know if it's an existing easement, I think HCC REZ is about 98% existing easement.

Being able to use your existing easement for that extent of a project, minimises impact on community and allows you to deliver faster. So it's an absolute positive. The flip side is it's got to be supportive of the generation projects that want to connect. It's about energy at the end of the day, not the grid.

So that's one aspect. The other aspect is sometimes some of our existing network is really heavily loaded and really critical, and it's difficult actually to take it out of service to upgrade it so that it's not always going to be the solution. Sometimes we have to do a greenfield project first, and then that will lower the usage of an existing asset that maybe we can then use that easement again for another, you know, to reuse it for a greenfield project.

[00:15:28] Sarah:

Hmm. So, speaking about community. Potentially this is one way to minimise community disruption and the impact of infrastructure build on local community. What other ways are you looking at to make sure rural communities benefit and that the downsides for these communities are managed?

[00:15:44] Mark:

Yeah, it's a really good question.

And the REZ, like I said before, it's not just about the grid,it's about the energy and the renewable projects and a lot of the community feedback, isn't it? It's grid, but it's also what's happening with all those projects. And there are real concerns, of course, about what does that mean, what does it mean for transport, what does it mean for people coming into the region that haven't been there during construction and operation.

So, population increases and what that does for health services, education, et cetera. You know, so they're, they're real issues. I think one of the things I'd say is when we do survey regional communities, there's also strong support on the basis oft he economic opportunities.One of the things we do is make sure that those communities can maximise their input into their participation in those economic opportunities, whether that's in the construction phase or the operations phase, or through training.

That's really important.Under the EII Act -Sorry, another acronym the Electricity Infrastructure Investment Act. One of the features of that is it allows, it requires the generation projects that connect into our REZ’s to,also provide funding in the long term for community and employment programs.

And on the Central West Orana REZ, which is our first REZ that we developed, and he's currently under construction, we've already pre-funded 70 million of that to the community in a range of programs, community programs, accommodation initiatives in Mudgee, a range of training initiatives as well to make sure local people can participate in the transition.

So,they're important initiatives. But of course, there are other aspects to community angst as well. And a big one is our engagement with landholders because it's a difficult conversation, you know, and obviously some landholders that benefit directly from the transition,they're hosting wind turbines or solar panels and there's an additional source of income and they can accommodate that within their existing operations in terms of what they use the land for, which is fantastic. There are others that are impacted negatively by having to have a transmission line when they didn't want one.

You know, that's really important how we engage with those people, the landholders, how we are, you know, as responsive as possible and address, you know, minimise the impact as much as possible and have a range of options for landholders that are impacted.That's a really important part of maintaining community support.

[00:18:37] Kelly:

Can I build on that Sarah?So one of the other things that we've done for the Hunter is as Mark said earlier there's a lot going on in the Hunter region and one of the First Nations communities that we are dealing with is the Wanaruah peoples. And there are, there is actually a lot of REZ activity going on,they've got quite a big area that they cover. 

And so, Ausgrid worked with Indigenous Energy Australia and three or four community groups within Wanaruahand have come up with what they're calling a Community Energy Strategy. So whenever, uh, somebody like Ausgrid or a generator or anybody else working on any of the other projects that Mark listed in the Hunter and they are on Wanaruah land, they can receive a copy of this Community Energy Strategy.

So,Warnaruah, they own it. And that goes to some of the outcomes that the Warnaruah people are looking for out of the energy transition. So it goes to all those things that Mark listed about what they want for education or health or transport. They've got seven outcomes that they're looking for and that's a really good way that the community or that community can benefit from the energy transition over both the short term and the long term. 

[00:19:51] Sarah:

I love that. So, whether it's new build or upgrades, as we were talking about to existing infrastructure, there are of course challenges. And if I think about what I've read in the papers, even just recently, there's the community impacts, which we've touched on, but also getting the workforce and increasing costs and materials just to name a few.

What are the challenges that we need to overcome for our grid to be truly renewable?So, Mark, this is my question. What keeps you up at night? Not just generally, but specifically what are those challenges that there don't seem to be easy answers for?

[00:20:27] Mark:

Yeah look, there's a lot that needs to come together to deliver the energy in a REZ, the integration of all that so that all parts can deliver the energy transition. That's what keeps me up at night. 

And we spoke a little bit earlier about OSOM, OSOM is one example. But it's quite a, you know,it's a good example because it illustrates the sort of what may not initially be an obvious impact of renewable energy.

And if I can expand that a little bit, if you just take Central West Orana which we know is a area out around the Dubbo area. We've signed up 7.1 gigawatts of generation to connect into that REZ initially.If you just look at the wind turbines, there's about 400 odd wind turbines that need to be delivered in a fairly short space of time.

Each of them has blades and tower bodies. They've probably got between 14 and 17 OSOM movements for every wind turbine. So, and an OSOM movement, if you're stuck behind it, you'd know what it is. It's a very slow, heavy truck that is going to cause you delay. So, you multiply those numbers out and you know, you travel from Newcastle Port on the Golden Highway you can see how that's gonna be a big issue. 

And, you know, and we're taking steps to manage that. But I think there's more work to be done. So,it's those sort of enabling infrastructure projects that are probably not obvious when you first think about it, but they're the ones that could slow down the transition if we don't really plan them.

[00:22:02] Sarah:

Right. And are there policy or broader environmental changes that need to happen beyond the immediate challenges of building new stuff in order for us to really embrace renewables?

[00:22:12] Mark:

I mentioned before the transmission planning review. But I do think it's really central because, you know, those recommendations to deliver a new, an integrated New South Wales plan that coordinates input from the distribution companies, from Transgrid, from AEMO, and integrates that into a New South Wales plan.

And that is a plan for 20 years is a really important step on the energy transition because the transition is a big, you know, it's a long endeavor and we're doing really important projects now, but there's going to be more work that has to be done as we move deeper into the transition. You know, as we transition heavy industry and mining and agriculture and other users of energy, it's a deep transition.

And so, it's a long-term plan.

[00:23:02] Sarah:

Yeah. Kelly. As you start to actually build the HCC REZ, what challenges do you need to overcome right now? Is there anything specific?

[00:23:12] Kelly:

So, we've had, I guess the opportunity to be planning this for sort of more than 12 months now. And to Mark's point, logistics area very big part of how we plan and how we deliver.For us we have a couple of advantages that we already have, sort of more than 900 of our own staff up above the Hawkesbury River so that we can call on.We have tried to use two contractors, two major contractors that are working with us. One of them also has a hub around the Newcastle region.

So again, logistically we have tried to minimise the challenges of delivery. But there will always be something in a major project like this, right? So, we try to plan as much in advance and then we have people on the team that when those issues do arrive, they are flexible enough or innovative enough to solve those problems as they arise. So, I think for this one, this is just a bigger scale than some of the things that Ausgrid has delivered.

[00:24:07] Sarah:

Is this one of the biggest projects you've ever taken on?

[00:24:27] Kelly:

Uh, so it is definitely the biggest in the last 10 years.So, in Ausgrid's history, previously we have delivered some bigger projects, but it's definitely the biggest in the last 10 years.

The good thing is we've broken it down into component parts. So, we do have the 85 kilometers of poles and wires to put up, and we've got two new substations that we're building. But we're also doing brownfield development on two other substations.So, if you break it into those component parts we have done each of those component parts and stages over the last 10 years. 

Sarah:

Right? 85 kilometers...

Kelly:

Yeah. So,it's a baby. I say it's a baby. Compared to the New England's 200 something, isn't it?

[00:24:58] Sarah:

That's a lot of wires. So, in some ways, the HCC REZ is a bit of a test case. Is it really that much faster and cheaper?

What do you think Ausgrid will learn through the HCC REZ project that could help us consider which future projects to pursue?

[00:25:12] Kelly:

Mark has already alluded to, it's not just about the infrastructure, but it's about the generator connections. And again, HCC has a slightly different approach to some of the other REZ, they have a different scheme for.

So, we are sort of trying to understand now where that demand is coming from, but I think the, if we deliver successfully by mid-2028 and that generation is there, we'll have learned a lot about innovative construction. About bringing that generator connection in.

So Ausgrid's in a good position where we can advocate on behalf of generators because we are not a generator. If they are coming across other constraints, whether it be planning or whatever, we can effectively advocate from a position of, um, from a neutral position.So,we'll be learning about what some of those generators,some of the problems they are having. And also, actually we've improved our connections process over the last 12 months because we know that we need to be easy to connect to.So actually, we are looking inside our own tent anyway.

[00:26:14] Sarah:

Yeah, you'd be holding up projects just from your end.

[00:26:17] Kelly:

Correct, so it's not just about the build itself, but it's about how we as a DNSP can be a better partner in the energy transition as well. And then,so we get that gigawatt connected, then we will at least prove an HCC and then it will go to the bigger plan to see where else these types of projects can be delivered in New South Wales.

[00:26:44] Sarah:

So, Mark, how do you see the future of the grid and your vision of our energy infrastructure?

[00:26:52] Mark:

I'm really positive about the future because I've been in the industry quite a long time, and over that time I've seen a lot of innovation.

I've seen a lot of reduction in cost of renewable technologies, batteries, you know, if you actually look over the longer term, how those costs have declined is amazing. And, you know, the innovation has been amazing as well. So, we are where we are today, but I can see a lot of potential for that innovation to really come to the fore and help us drive the transition.

[00:27:26] Sarah:

So,you're optimistic, you think that we will get there and we'll go from today grid to future grid with plentiful renewable energy?

[00:27:34] Mark:

Yeah. Look, I wouldn't minimise the challenges because we're at the really sharp end at the moment of the energy transition. And so,it's really hard and the stuff we're doing is new.

We're testing new things. We are testing it with government bodies and with community, and people aren't used to it. And so it's difficult, you know, I think as we get more experienced it'll become easier. But it is, it's hard.It's hard at the moment.

[00:28:02] Kelly:

And I think part of that as well is the narrative around renewable energy in the long term will be the cheapest form of energy, right?

But there is that sort of narrative about how we get there. It is going to be challenging effectively from a consumer cost perspective to get to that point. And I think that's going to be, that the community are going to, and the consumer is expecting lower cost straight away, and it might be some time in coming.

So that's why we keep talking about how we can do things for sort of lower cost or cheaper. Because we're trying to do our bit.

[00:28:39] Sarah:

Keep those costs down. And it is a transition. And transitions cost money.

[00:28:42] Kelly:

Yes. That's right.

[00:28:43] Sarah:

Yeah. And once again, I have learned so much once more.

Mark, what was it, the acronym? What was it?

[00:28:50] Mark:

We've got lots of acronyms. OSOM, OSOM

[00:28:52] Sarah:

OSOM. And what does it mean again?

[00:28:53] Mark:

Over Size Over mass.

[00:28:55] Sarah:

Over Size Over Mass. I love it. Always learning something. So, thank you so much for everything and good luck with the project more than anything. 

And the very, very large project of resolving New South Wales and getting all those renewables into our grid. Love that. 

We hope you enjoyed today's discussion on all things transmission and how we solve the challenge of building a truly renewable grid. Join us for our next episode where we speak with special guest Lord Adair Turner, Chair of the Energy Transitions Commission to explore the global energy transition and Australia’s role in it.