Distribution System Planning: Untapping the full potential of the grid

[00:00] Sarah:

Welcome to Wired for Good Conversations for a Better Energy Future. The podcast exploring how we can achieve a faster, fairer, and more affordable energy transition. Brought to you by Ausgrid, this podcast aims to make the complex energy industry more accessible and address how the energy transition can unlock greater benefits for all Australians. Join us as we bring together leaders and experts to tackle the big questions on what's needed to achieve an energy future we're proud to leave as a legacy for the next generation.  

Hello and welcome to Wired for Good, the podcast where we explore the people ideas and innovations shaping Australia's energy future. 

I'm your host, Sarah Aubrey. In this episode, we explore the potential of the New South Wales networks to host more renewables and match customer demand with local generation and to help really understand what that potential looks like, we'll be discussing the new DSP or Distribution System Plan. Now, if you've never heard of a DSP before, you're not alone. 

This is a first, and don't worry, we are here to unpack exactly what it is and why the New South Wales networks have banded together to produce it and what it means. For the future of the grid. So today we have a full house of guests as this project has been a real collaboration across three New South Wales distribution networks. 

And I'd like to get you all to introduce yourselves because I was so panicked about getting your surnames incorrect. So Marc, let's start with you. 

[01:36] Marc:  

Sure. Excellent. Thank you very much for having us. My name is Marc Thiebaut. I'm head of corporate strategy at Essential Energy. 

[01:43] Sarah:  

Great. 

[01:43] Alida:  

And hi, I’m Alida, a returning guest. I'm head of DSO at Ausgrid. 

[01:49] Melissa:  

Hi, Melissa Doueihi here, head of Strategy and Innovation at Endeavor Energy. Thank you for having me.  

[01:57] Sarah:  

Amazing, Thanks for being here. So I'll start actually with you, Alida because before we kind of kick off, I want establish what, what is an ISP? 

[02:06] Alida:  

Yeah. So, AEMO produces an Integrated System Plan every two years, which really looks at how do we meet our emissions targets in Australia, what will it take?

How do we invest in that. And the genesis of that has been, it was traditionally a transmission plan that's then turned into an Integrated System Plan. And what we were trying to do here is to really say, well, what if we took that same approach and looked at scaling that down into the distribution network and really looking at how distribution opportunities can also contribute to that system, strategic system planning that's done every two years by AEMO.  

Sarah:  

So that's what the DSP is?  

Alida: 

Yes. 

Sarah: 

Right. It's not just a letter that's different to the acronym. Excellent. 

[03:40] Sarah: 

Right. So Marc, why have the three networks, Ausgrid Essential, and Endeavor come together to produce the DSP?

What problem were you all trying to solve?

[03:51] Marc: 

Well, really the problem is about the middle and the fact we're thinking they've been missing conversation around the middle. By middle, I mean the distribution network.

Sarah: 

Which is the poles and wires? 

Marc: 

Poles and wires. So, a lot of the debates and the work to date, it's been focused on transmission side of things.

Uh, large transmission project, renewable energy zone, and also a lot of effort, behind the meter.  To subsidise home solar and now batteries. But the middle, the distribution network, those poles and wires that connect everything, there is still opportunity there. There is, available capacity to connect more renewables.

And there is also, a role form of flexible use of orchestration of consumer energy resources and so while we think there is a bit of momentum behind that missing middle it's not a new concept and we know that there is some rule changes, supporting that process. There is the ISP that you mentioned earlier starting to consider them and side factors, which is key.

There is a bit of momentum on what needs to happen. Which is, bring visibility of those opportunities. But the real challenge is a how, and Alida touched on that. It's really about considering  the diversity of those different networks and be able to find that right methodology to just assess the value at the distribution level.

And we've done that with that modeling at a level that was deeper than ISP could do, going at the zone substation level.

[05:34] Sarah: 

Hmm. And you're the ones to do it. So Mel, what's the role of the DSP? How do you hope this document will be used?

[05:42] Melissa: 

Look, probably building on what Marc said, the role is around helping with the energy transition. It's a big task. Net zero by 2050. It's a big ask for the country and for New South Wales in particular. I think, you know, the current program or the current projects, they've got a lot of, there's a lot of work to do there. They're very costly. They take a lot of time. 

And the role of the distribution system plan is to do its heavy lifting or it's part in helping with that transition because there is a real risk you could say as to, you know, what, meeting those 2050 or missing meeting those 2050 targets. So, it's really about what can the distribution networks do to support those targets. And there's a lot of infrastructure, there's a lot of network that's a lot of gear that sits in the distribution network that is, as Marc said, not utilised.

So how do, how do we transition at a cost?

Sarah: 

And it's existing already. 

Melissa: 

It's existing already. So how do we transition at a more, in a more costly fashion, in a more timely fashion and in a more equitable fashion as well, to make sure that everybody gets access to, you know, clean green energy. So that's the role of the DSP. 

[06:56] Sarah: 

Consumers will be very happy with that idea. Is this a model, do you think, and this could be for any of you to answer, is this a model you think could work in other areas of Australia? 

Melissa: 

I'd hope so.

[07:08] Sarah: 

Do you think other states could use this model? 

[07:12] Melissa: 

Absolutely. I think we're all grappling. Even though we are very different, our networks are different. 

Sarah: 

And how, how are they different? 

Melissa: 

Well, you know, Ausgrid's very urban, you know, oriented, lots of, speak on behalf of Ausgrid, but there's a lot of, you know, brownfield infrastructure or there's, you know, already quite dense population.

[07:35] Marc: 

Essential energy is like polar opposites. You've got a very low density of customers. You've got a network that is in some areas not meshed at all. So, some opportunity to divert the flow of energy is not, is not present. And also, you've got a lot of space and available capacity as well.

[07:51] Alida: 

Absolutely. Significant growth.

[07:54] Melissa: 

Exactly. And what lots of green, lots of greenfield, lots of growth area. So, it's about bringing new infrastructure in very quickly. Western Sydney fastest growing region in the country. So, different but the same. We all want to bring, do our bit for the transition. We're grappling with, you know, large load customers wanting to connect with, activity behind the meter with batteries and solar.

And so we are, all networks are grappling with the same issues. How do we better coordinate that? How do we do our bit for integrating batteries and so I think other states, they are absolutely grappling with the same issues. So if what we are doing here is a good outcome and I think it can only be a good outcome in terms of networks working together.

It's much more efficient, a much more cost-effective way of transitioning than it would be great to see other states considering this the same way.

[08:49] Sarah: 

Excellent. So now we have a plan, as you say. What have you learned through this process and what does the plan tell us about how we should be managing and utilising network infrastructure across New South Wales?

Who'd like to answer that.

[09:05] Alida: 

I might kick that off. I think when we started, I had envisioned that what we were going to do was look at very specific solutions like say community batteries or EV charging and say, this is how you leverage this solution. But what I realized is that a lot of the value actually lies within our sub-transmission network.

Just network that's there right now. That can connect wind and solar and utility scale batteries today, right? And so even just saying, let's make sure that that is part of our strategic planning process that we have. So, when we are thinking about renewable energy zones, also thinking about distribution level, renewable energy zones and using that existing assets, that a lot of the value is there and that a lot of the barriers is really just around the fact that we have arbitrarily drawn this line between transmission and distribution, and we plan it differently.

[10:01] Sarah: 

Right?

[10:02] Alida: 

But there's not a lot of difference between, particularly between a sub-transmission network and the transmission network. And bringing those things into just the same planning processes and approval processes, is going to unlock billions of dollars of value.

And that's even before we get into the more complex community-based solutions that we think there's also a place for.

[10:25] Sarah:

Yeah. Marc, what's the punchline? What, what is the DSP revealed about the capacity of New South Wales networks?

[10:34] Marc: 

First is, like there is absolutely value at the distribution network that can be unlocked, and we tested that against a range of scenarios.

So, scenario is high demand, low demand, high supply, low supply. So, and regardless of those scenarios, we always see, see values. So,  if you believe in AI and that we're going to have a lot of data centers that will create some load to support that, then the demand is high and the value is significant.

We're thinking upward of 4 billion. If you are more conservative, we still see value. And so, because that available capacity is latent, it's here, leverage it. If we speak about, orchestrating or better coordinating, what's happening behind the meter, that value is there. And same for battery storage.

So, we really see that as a no brainer, but that's not the punchline. The punchline is...

Sarah: 

What is the punchline? 

Marc: 

The punchline is about the barriers. And we've got three networks speaking as one voice in term of what needs to happen to unlock those opportunities. And hopefully we're going to spend a bit of time to, to drag into that, but also we need to explain also value that 4 billion, where does that come from?

And so, if you project yourself in a scenario where you, you, you really utilise the potential of distribution network, with you've got batteries proliferating at the distribution level and see orchestrated what's happening as a wider system. First things we see the flow of energy, interstate changing.

And we see a bit of lower reliance on interconnection. That means New South Wales becomes a little bit more self-sufficient. Second, we also see more wind capacity being unlocked and in the energy mix. Every type of energy matters. So, when you unlock a bit of wind, it's actually very beneficial for the whole of system.

Uh, then interestingly, we also see a reduction in gas generation in the order of 50 terawatt hours of equivalent energy. And also, finally it's about buying time or providing some breathing space for transmission. In the order of two to five years where the timing, where transmission is needed is a bit deferred.

So some projects like New England or Central West Orana phase two would happen at a different point in time. So, when you take all that new system into consideration, you get value from less carbon emission, a better energy mix deferral or different timing for transmission. And deferral for network augmentation at the disruption level.

So, everyone is contributing to that 4 billion upward.

[13:45] Sarah: 

Are you noticing any difference with all these batteries that are coming online already? Or is that being sort of noticed in the grid yet or is it just too smaller piece of the puzzle?

[13:56] Marc: 

The uptake is phenomenal.

[13:59] Alida: 

The uptake has been noticed.

[14:00] Sarah:  

But you notice that like more energy coming into the grid at peak that you hadn't had before, or is that, or are people keeping it for themselves? Are they on VPPs? 

[14:10] Marc:  

So, home battery is having the opposite effects of smoothing thethe energy curve. Yeah. So it's beneficial for the grid, but one of the key challenges the uptake of VPP - Virtual Power Plant and how you have an asset behind the meter that's not only going to you know help. The person who has it. But also supports the whole of system. That's the key question. And, unlocking that you're going to need the distribution network to create bigger wall. 

[14:38] Alida:  

It actually reminds me of one of the other things that we found, which we weren't necessarily expecting. So today we have a lot of solar in, in Australia and a lot of solar in, in New South Wales.

And so, in the middle of the day you often find that prices are low or negative. Cue solar share tariff. But, you know, and you would even say that today there's so much solar that most of your value that you would get comes from diversifying it, putting in batteries, putting in wind that produces energy at a different time because solar all happens at the same time.

So that diversity means a lot. But we actually find in later years because of the level of electrification that we are seeing that solar comes back into play and that that local solar in particular really helps with being able to balance out supply and demand in a local area and therefore reducing your reliance past, like big transmission constraints.

[15:35] Sarah: 

Okay.

[15:35] Alida: 

So, I think that's quite an interesting finding that we weren't necessarily expecting and I think that's where that home batteries and rooftop solar, particularly commercial and industrial rooftop solar is going to towards the kind of 2040s. So, it's a 25-year plan that we're looking at.

So, towards the 2040s, it's really going to come back into its own and help with us doing that last mile of decarbonisation.

Sarah: 

All those empty roofs. 

Alida: 

I know, I know. 

[16:00] Melissa: 

So, just another point on the home batteries. I think all of these different technologies are needed. What the DSP did show though, the cheapest way to get storage on these, on the network or across the system, is to have it at that zone substation.

So, on a per megawatt basis, it is a lot cheaper. And then also more equitable way of getting storage, you know, in the system. So, home batteries are great and there has been a great uptake of it, but there's some that can't access. There's people in all of our networks that can't access that kind of storage solution.

[16:38] Sarah: 

Is that like the idea behind that sandbox plan of the Community Power Network?

[16:46] Alida: 

Yeah. We all have various trials in which we're looking at, you know, what  could the regulatory framework look like? And I was alluding to that a little bit before in terms of the community solutions, we think there is a real, like if you, if you take some of the utility scales storage that we are forecasting. And instead of putting it in the utility scale, putting it deeper into the network, and then making those shared assets that can be used in Community Power Networks or community batteries and offer storage services and things, you unlock a bunch of equity things as well and the cost is comparable.

So, but we, we only scratched the surface of that in this first version of the Distribution System Plan.

[17:25] Sarah:  

Right? 

[17:25] Alida:  

So, this first one we were really saying, ‘Hey, Let's just make sure we take sub-transmission opportunities into account when we do system planning’, right? Because that's going to be billions of dollars of value. 

But there is clearly a much deeper and richer debate we need to have on community based solutions as well, which we are, we starting the conversation in this report and when we are putting some of that value forward, but it's also something that we can't necessarily do by ourselves. I think that's where we need to collaborate and really talk about what is the future role of networks and why trials like this and flex together. 

And a few of the other things we're doing is really important to help inform what does community-based solutions look like as well.  

[18:06] Sarah:  

Do you need to like write another chapter With the solar sharer scheme now being announced, we need to go back to the board with that DSP. 

[18:11] Melissa:  

That's the thing with the energy transition is as more and more information becomes available, you need to keep adjusting your plans. 

And what I think is great about the DSP is it does buy us that time to work out well, how much load is coming on, how much extra data center load or EV charging is going to impact our network.  

[18:34] Sarah:  

Then you'll have vehicle to grid, even. Do things again beyond that. 

[18:36] Melissa:  

Yeah, absolutely 

So these solutions, so the way of transitioning is, like, you know, putting in batteries, it's helping to kind of de-risk or you know, buy us a bit more time as we figure out what does this transition actually look like and how is the network going to be used?  

[18:55] Sarah:  

Yeah. So, the headline numbers are great, that's exciting, but how do we make it a reality, Mel? 

[19:04] Melissa:  

Well, we start with a DSP, so I guess it's actually stepping forward and saying this is, you know, as Marc said, it's a missing middle. We step forward and we, hopefully this unlocks a lot more conversation and a lot more discussion at the levels that it needs to happen and the thinking starts to shift that, okay, we've looked at this from an upstream lens or from a transmission lens, and that's absolutely needed. 

So, this is not to say we don't do transmission. This is transmission does its bid and let's help de-risk this with, looking at what's happening in the distribution or what can be offered in the distribution part of the value chain. And then obviously, you know, customers are going to continue to do what they're doing. 

So I, I think this is what's great is that this will just ignite the conversation, ignite different thinking and hopefully then work towards better outcomes. It will take time. I don't think all the answers by any means are in this report, but it's a step closer towards, you know, getting to the answers and getting to the outcomes. 

[20:14] Sarah:  

Do you think you'll, you know, let's say you've got ideas. Do you think at some point it'll become too hard and you'll have to maybe meet somewhere in the middle? Or do you think you'll be able to the middle? 

[20:25] Melissa:  

That’s very clever. 

[20:29] Sarah:  

I just made that up on this spot, just so you know.  

[20:31] Alida:  

I mean, I think one of the interesting things is that when we started this project, we said, okay, what we're going to do is put together a roadmap for how do you get access to this value. 

And it's like you do X, Y, and Z and you get there and we actually ended up calling it a Distribution System Plan Opportunities report, to say where we can get to by ourselves is to identify the opportunities and point to it and talk about what the things are that's stopping it from happening. 

But what we need from here is the regulatory reform to really unlock it. So, I'll give you, I'll give you an example. We know that we need to have storage connected to the network, right? And we know that there's capacity throughout our network for storage and that the deeper put it into distribution network. 

There's real value, but the way that we treat batteries that connect to distribution is different to transmission. So, for example, the New South Wales roadmap charges, if you are a battery connecting to transmission, you don't pay it. If you connect to distribution, you do. So, these things just create kind of artificial barriers where it might not be that the transmission-based battery project is the best solution, but the economics or the signals we're sending to investors is go connect to transmission. So, it's things like that that we need to really unlock. So, that we can access this capacity in the distribution network that's already there. 

[21:49] Sarah:  

Why? Why is there, why isn't, why aren't you allowed to do that at this point? 

[21:55] Melissa:  

We can connect batteries, it's just, there's a disincentive for those battery developers to connect at the distribution level because it's more costly.  

[22:06] Marc:  

If you take the same developer that connect the same battery at the transmission level, they won't be charged transmission charges. 

[22:12] Sarah:  

Right.  

Marc:  

But if they do at the distribution level, that exact same developer, exact same battery will be charge transmission charges.  

[22:20] Sarah:  

That's a bit dumb. 

[22:20] Melissa:  

Well, it is. 

That's where the whole of system planning comes in and take a look at all of it. 

[22:27] Sarah:  

When was that locked in place? How long are we...  

[22:30] Alida:  

It’s a paradigm, right? 

So, we used to be in a system where everything connected to transmission was supply side that was supplying energy. And then everything connected to distribution was consuming that energy. And so therefore, you don't charge people connecting and doing the supply.  

[22:48] Sarah:  

So, is this because there's new technology? Is it just sort of reared its head because of batteries? 

[22:50] Alida:  

Batteries is definitely a more complicated version of it. Because generation gets treated very similarly, but batteries don't. And it's because they, they're kind of in this weird in between generation and loads but it's, it's just we're in a different paradigm and we need to update the rules. 

There was no ill intent for when that was set up. It was just that no one ever envisioned that you would connect utility scale storage to the distribution network.  

[23:23] Sarah:  

It's time to get rid of that then, isn't it? Like, let's sort that one out, tick. So, I'm sure going into this process, you had ideas or hypothesis about what the opportunity for the networks was. 

How have they been proven, basically, or disproven through this process? Who had all, did you all come with like a certain number of ideas to the table or how did it all work? How did you all work together or continue to work together? Is there someone who's really bossy and then someone who's like the, the person who like - how does it work?  

[23:53] Melissa:  

It's just been so much fun. It's been a challenge. But a great opportunity and just working so closely together and it's not just the three of us here that worked on this. We went deep into our businesses and we worked with the planning team, the regulatory team, the pricing team, the connections team to build this all up. 

So, I don't know if we came with preconceived ideas of what it had to look like. But we certainly came in with the same objective and the same passion to wanna actually make a difference here. We knew there was value. We all knew there was extra capacity in our networks that wasn't being considered. 

And we all had the same drive to say, how can we model this in a way that's credible and in a way that puts the distribution networks in its rightful place in terms of its role?  

Sarah:  

Has this ever happened before, where three networks have gotten together? 

[24:49] Alida:  

Well, we worked together on many things, but I wouldn't say to this degree. I think this is a new level of collaboration. 

In terms of just having some of those, debates behind close closed doors as well of being like, you know, what can we do? Like, how can we really, bring something to this conversation and not just be like, well, in our network this is different. Because we're special and actually going like... 

So, you'll see for instance, in Distribution System Plan, at no point do we say in Essentials Network you can do this and an Endeavors network, you can do this. It's all like in distribution in New South Wales. So, we really put ourselves through the challenge to say, what can we offer in a way that the New South Wales planning process can really wrap its head around and take into account. 

[25:44] Sarah:  

Do you have situations where, or maybe into the future, say you've got a renewable energy zone, do they cross networks, sometimes those zones, or are they just in one network at the moment? And I guess that could happen in the future, couldn't it? 

[25:58] Alida:  

I think, you know, what's, what quite interesting for example, is that Endeavor and Ausgrid both, are seeing significant data center growth, right. 

And so that's an area where it makes sense for us to continue to really work together on how do we plan these precincts where developers are not going to care or whether, you know, they're connecting to Endeavor or Ausgrid. It's all like in the same sort of regions. 

And I think that is the onus on us is to start thinking about doing area plans as well collectively and together. So, for instance, you know, a lot of the growth in Sydney is Endeavor and in the core of Sydney is Ausgsrid, but no one cares. Like it's all, it's all Sydney. Right.  

So I think that is the thing that we need to do more and more. Is to really not be centered on our own networks and what we do for ourselves, but really think about the whole system and, and how planning naturally happens and how can we feed into that. 

[26:59] Sarah:  

So, in terms of producing this document, I assume a lot of data and analysis has gone into it. What really sits underneath the headlines?  

[27:07] Marc:  

On the point of collaboration, I think one of my greatest memory of that project when we had like all three teams, or probably our best network engineers, is there's three networks thinking about simple questions such as what is available capacity? Let's define that. And try to, well... 

[27:25] Alida:  

That was a Friday afternoon as well, wasn't it?  

[27:28] Melissa:  

Yeah. We've had many Friday afternoons for some reason. That's the only way you align three networks on a Friday afternoon. Yeah, but that’s a good point. 

[27:35] Marc:  

Yeah. And you really have to explore the diversity across a different network. 

What that means, what are the constraints?  And what I'm most fearful about is that, you know, someone come from top down and say, this is the method of how to assess the value of disruption network. What we, here, we have a absolutely, a really much bottom up approach where we kind of trust each network to understand the fundamental constraints, which are quite different from one network to the other, and be able to put a cohesive, coherent picture out there of the value that the distribution network can bring. 

[28:10] Melissa:  

Yeah, I was just going to say, I think that's what makes this project so special is it came from within the networks themselves and the collaboration of the three networks deciding, well, how are we going to define capacity? Export import, like how do we define all of that? How do we look at our zone substation limits? 

How do we look at, you know, the data center projections and we made those decisions. Considering the best way that we could, given the data that we had, the best way that we could input that data into the modeling. So, that's what's so great about it, is that we came together and it was a conversation.  

[28:54] Marc:  

So, you mentioned the punchline and you know, the key number, the key insight. But hopefully we will make a contribution with, you know, the methodology that is in the report. And people can leverage that as well. 

[29:05] Sarah:  

Because all your networks are so different. Is that tricky to come up with a cohesive one document? Was that very difficult? 

[29:12] Melissa: 

Absolutely. 

[29:14] Marc:  

And in the future we need to do that for the NEM it's not going to be like three network, but many more. 

[29:20] Alida:  

Yes, absolutely. And it was also a case of when we saw the first results come out of the model, we were like, ‘ooh, actually, yeah, that's not quite right’. And so, we had to go back and go like, what is it that we're missing here? 

Like, how does our instinct about the network inform whether what we're getting out is making sense? I should add that we did have some partners in crime in this. So, we engaged, um, KPMG to help us, particularly be a referee and be that facilitator to help us do that because we knew we were going to need to do that and that was going to be a big part of it. 

And they also brought with them onto the team Endgame analytics, which is one of the best sort of market modelers that there is at the moment. Which we also knew wasn't a strength. Like we, we don't do market modeling. That's not something that we're very good at. So, it was really through that facilitation as well as having our engineers and the market models in the same room debating about what actually shifts the dial, because there's things that we, as engineers might think is important, but actually that doesn't really make a big difference. 

[30:27] Alida:  

So that was the stuff there that really drove to a consistent approach and what we're doing with the release is to make all of that methodology available. So, we've got fairly extensive technical appendices that are describing what the methodology is and we are releasing data files and things because we really do want this to be a methodology that others can pick up and run with as well. 

[30:51] Sarah:  

Do you think the DSP impacts different networks differently? 

[30:55] Alida:  

Because you're talking about making use of what's existing. Obviously it depends on what you have existing in your network. So, I think so. 

[31:08] Marc:  

I like to think that, you know, and I was joking about this, that Ausgrid and Endeavor bring the problem and Essential Energy bring the solution because they're bringing the load. 

They're bringing the load, the data center, the demand and there was a lot of sun and wind  and available capacity and Essential Energy... 

[31:26] Sarah:  

It's Essential Energy all over it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, we've got commonalities that bring this report together. Why is it better to have one DSP for New South Wales rather than three separate ones? 

Who'd like to answer that? Marc? Marc, please. 

[31:45] Marc:  

Well, ultimately what we need is a visibility of those opportunities into the broader system plan, right? So, it starts with New South Wales and it's a great example, but it can go much broader. But it's really about how those bottom-up view of the opportunities can feed into an integrated system plan so that you can contrast and compare fairly transmission opportunity with distribution opportunity with behind the middle opportunities. That's where the value sits. 

[32:17] Sarah:  

Yeah. I suppose if you're speaking with one voice.  

[32:27] Alida:  

Yes, it's what Marc said at the beginning, which is the punchline is actually that we've distilled all of this down and in the report we've got three key recommendations, right? Because we know that we are not gonna solve the whole puzzle over overnight.  

Like it's going to take many years to mature how we do planning and how we leverage all these different opportunities. But we were able to look at it from all these different perspectives and say like, if we can like do the magic wand and change three things in the regulatory framework, this is what it would be.   

And we were able to do that and we could only really do that by bringing on a diverse views to the table, debating out what, what was going to be the things that really moved the dial. 

Whereas I think if we did it individually, we each would've done the thing that was important to us. Right. So Ausgrid would probably have made more comments around electric vehicles and electrification, and you probably would've talked more about renewable energy zones and generation. You would talk more about growth, but we were able to bring all those things together and say, well, in the mix of all of that, what is the core bits standing in the way of value in general being unlocked. 

[33:25] Sarah:  

Yeah. So, you have this amazing report. Right. We have this plan. What's next? 

[33:32] Melissa:  

Well, there's, I think there'll be a lot that's next. We will go public with this report and the findings, and we will be speaking to lots of stakeholders and people and stakeholders within the industry. 

So, it will start to build in terms of the opportunity that sits there. So, yuou know, over the next few months I guess what comes from it will be  a number of conversations, a lot of dialogue, I guess, around what does this mean? And really, certainly leading up to Christmas and probably early in the new year, we hope that it gets us to the table.  

We get that seat at the table to have those deep conversations around where we can see some change, where we can see some better opportunity to unlock this value. And hopefully our CEOs are well across this, our executives are well across this. 

So, conversations will continue in all parts of the industry, but ultimately it's to have that seat at the table to start thinking about, well, how do we plan differently? How do our approval process change? How do we create that level playing field? But connecting those distribution BESS’s as Alida talked to. So that's ultimately where we want to get to. 

Longer term, there will be additional versions of this, so we will get more and more data from our networks hopefully move to LV, so we we're at that zone [35:00] substation level in terms of the data. There's still value to consider at the LV level, and so hopefully, you know, more iterations will unlock additional value and additional capacity. 

But hopefully it's us continuing to work together and only better ways of the networks doing things together. It's been such a great experience personally. But I think there's been great benefit for all of our organisations to work this way more.  

[35:31] Marc:  

And long term, it's probably the beginning of that journey where we try to have distributor being part of that integrative system plan. 

Here we've got a minimum viable product with a methodology that can be improved and hopefully we're going to stimulate the debate so that we can carry that forward. And for sure it's going to take a few years. 

Alida:  

It's definitely step one in a journey. 

[35:51] Sarah:  

Right. We'll keep those Friday afternoons free. 

[35:58] Melissa:  

Oh no. Maybe that's a slight adjustment we can make to the next round. 

[36:06] Sarah:  

Monday morning here we come. What's worse? I don't know.  

Alright, well thank you so much. I learned once again, I learned so much.  

We hope you enjoyed today's discussion on the distribution system plan and how it works across networks to plan the best possible grid and how that process is shaping the future grid. Join us for our next episode where we explore sub-transmission and the innovative ways we are rethinking infrastructure to fast track more renewables into the grid.  

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